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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: May 15, 2012 4:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I recently read Richard Cole's "Stairway to Heaven" (I'm a sucker for a good rockumentary). Try as I have, I just don't dig Zep that much and find their music somewhat one-dimensional compared to the Grateful Dead.

Cole mentioned that "The New Yardbirds" covered some Grateful Dead tunes on their initial Scandinavian tour. Is this so? Or did he mean that Page and Plant played some Chuck Berry songs that the Grateful Dead covered as well?

It doesn't appear that the Grateful Dead ever shared a bill with Led Zeppelin, but I'm wondering if there is any Dead/Zep connection?

Apparently there was an incident where Bonham and Cole were incarcerated for beating up one of Bill Graham's employees prior to a Fillmore performance ?

Perhaps some Zep heads here can chime in?

As far as commercial success, I don't think the Grateful Dead can hold a candle to Led Zeppelin. And try as they might, it's doubtful that any Grateful Dead personnel could destroy a hotel room like John Bonham!

Obviously Page/Plant/Bonham/Jones were extremely talented and brought a high level of energy to their live performances. And Jimmy Page was a masterful producer in the studio. But were Zep smoke an mirrors? Could they peel the paint off of the walls of an arena like the Grateful Dead? Anyone catch a Zeppelin concert during the early 70's?

Your thoughts?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 16, 2012 8:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Peter Grant played Banjo with the Grateful Dead during this countrified show. That is a connection, no?

http://archive.org/details/gd69-06-27.sbd.samaritano.20547.sbeok.shnf

I am not sure I would describe Zep as one dimensional. I always thought it was funny that people would refer to them as the one of the first heavy metal or at least hard rock bands, yet so many of their songs were either acoustic or at least had acoustic components.

As for live, never saw them but i had tape of the Yardbirds right before they broke up and it was pretty cool. Page was already introducing themes that would eventually become Zep tunes. I think one was Over the Hills and Far Away, but i haven't heard that tape since i was in college.


This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2012-05-16 15:25:43

This post was modified by elbow1126 on 2012-05-16 15:46:29

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Poster: hseamons Date: May 15, 2012 6:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I love Zep. I've actually gotten in debates with my older brother (who prefers Zep) about which band is better and/or greater - Zep or Dead? He has damn near convinced me that Zep is the greater band historically/musically, but my Deadhead side of me always wins out.

Thank you, Cliff Hucker, for such a constructive post!

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Poster: hseamons Date: May 15, 2012 6:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Just want to reiterate right here, right now, that I love Led Zeppelin. Their latter albums have really grown on me - as in Presence and In Through the Out Door.

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Poster: hseamons Date: May 15, 2012 6:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Hey, did y'all ever see my bleak music video I made with bands like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin??? It contains Immigrant Song and No Quarter......

Zep and THX-1138

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: May 16, 2012 7:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

It was a 1977 Day on the Green show at Oakland Coliseum (LZ, Derringer, and Judas Priest) where the incident happened:

(Wikipedia)
The tour also experienced some unsavory backstage problems, exacerbated by the hiring of London gangster John Bindon as Led Zeppelin's security coordinator. After a 23 July show[13] at the "Days on the Green" festival at Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum in Oakland, California, Bindon, band manager Peter Grant and band member John Bonham were arrested after a member of promoter Bill Graham's staff was badly beaten during the performance. A member of the staff had struck Grant's 11-year old son when he was taking down a dressing room sign. This was seen by Bonham, who then walked over and kicked the man. Later, when Grant heard about this, he went into the trailer, along with Bindon and savagely assaulted the man with tour manager Richard Cole guarding the door and also roughing up another member of Graham's staff.


Led Zeppelin's second Oakland show took place only after Bill Graham signed a letter of indemnification absolving Led Zeppelin from responsibility for the previous night's incident. However, Graham refused to honour the letter and assault charges were laid against Grant, Cole, Bindon, and Bonham when the band arrived back at their hotel. The four received bail, whereupon a suit was filed against them by Graham for $2 million.[3][14] Led Zeppelin offered to settle and all four pleaded nolo contendere, receiving suspended sentences and fines.[3] Later, Graham went on San Francisco rock stations KSAN and KMEL and flatly announced that he would never book Led Zeppelin again.[15][16]

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: May 16, 2012 3:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I saw them once and I did not think they lived up to the hipe that was swirling around them at the time. The show was at the Garden and I do believe this particular show happened after the famous break-in of the Plaza Hotels' safe deposit box and all their cash for the N.Y.run was stolen.About the fight w/ Bill Grahams' people I believe it was over who had merchandizing rights and Zeps manager a huge mean dude named Peter Grant was having none of what BGP was dishing out. Imagine Bill Graham and Peter Grant in a dust up.These guys you did not trifel with at all.As for smoke and mirrors both were literally empolyed during Zeps set the backdrop if I remember was ringed w/ mirrors and smoke was being used for years.The only other group that I saw to be using mirrors was the Stones also at MSG but they used them as relectors of the follow spots that were placed behind the band into the mirrors angeled to hit the band.This lighting effect I have never seen used ever again by anyone.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 15, 2012 10:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I loved Zeppelin from the time I heard Immigrant Song in 5th grade or so; it was just the perfect song for a kid obsessed with Norse myths. Through middle/high school, I bought every album and played them incessantly and had a big huge poster of Zeppelin on my wall.

When I got into the GD, somehow my interest in Zeppelin completely faded ... probably it had been fading anyway as I got more into edgy punk plus 60s psychedelic music ... and when I've gone back to listen to them over the years, they've always struck me as, yeah, one-dimensional -- brilliant for an adolescent mindset, but not something that has ever really spoken to me as an adult.

Maybe that's just me and how I process it. The energy is very different (and rather, again, one-dimensional), and the lyrics are ... meh. I can enjoy them, but for me it's in a nostalgic way.

One of my son's best friends is a huge Zeppelin fan, though. (At just about the right age for it IMO.) So they do definitely have staying power. Just not with me :-)

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Poster: stratocaster Date: May 15, 2012 6:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I love Led Zeppelin, they absolutely rocked live...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoCzW9nvHXQ&;feature=relmfu

The 2 bands are similar in some regards, very different in others...long improvissational blues based jamming attributes of both bands during parts of their careers...both bands covered alot of blues and early rock and roll...after that they were distincly 2 different beasts...the Dead winged the setlists, Dead did jazz jams and more gospel tinged tunes, the female singer, the second guitarist, the acid and so on...both bands did manage to create, whether deliberately or not, a culture around themselves, a mythos that is interesting...the Dead are alot deeper that Zeppelin...

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbeep* Date: May 15, 2012 11:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I went through a Zep period but I outgrew it after a few years I had tickets for a '76 show that got cancelled so I never did see them in person. They are an historically significant band to be sure. But I was more of an "old Yardbirds" , Jeff Beck era fan. And I tended to follow the other half of the Yardbirds split, the Keith Relf/Jim McCarty collaboration that eventually became Renaissance, whom I never tired of because they always evolved and kept it fresh. The Dead also continued to evolve and explore new horizons. I didn't find that happening as much with Zep. But there's no denying that when they played they not only peeled the paint off the walls but knocked all the plaster off as well. They just stopped ringing my chimes.

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: May 15, 2012 6:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I listened to the album from the Song Remains the Same for a few years before I saw the actual movie. I was shocked by the amount of overdubbing that had occurred...not that the Dead were much different as far as that goes, but I left the theater thinking "these guys suck", and I was still a Zeppelin head at the time.

The first time I dosed was the last time I really listened to Zep. Not pleasing tripping music at all. And once I started furthur down that road I was not going to be turning back. I experimented with psychedelics for several years before I saw my first Dead show...so I was more than ready for it...and it was the most pleasing sound I had ever heard.

For me Grateful Dead and Led Zeppelin were the opposite ends of the social musical spectrum as far as 60's rock goes. One was violent and disrespectful the other was gracious and kind.

The childlike cheesy satanic BS didn't help.

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Poster: titos ghost Date: May 16, 2012 4:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

“Not sure where the anti semitism and domestic violence allegations come from.”

Try the 1:11 mark on the video you made hypocrite, A Few More Shows Nov.28, 2010 POV
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7853963/-1

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 15, 2012 9:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Yes, the Dead did meet Led Zeppelin once - in January 1969, LZ were playing at the Fillmore West in SF, and they went to Herb Greene's photo studio for a photo session. The Dead were visiting the studio at the same time. Pigpen had a pistol, which he started firing at the ceiling. Led Zeppelin fled the studio - as Weir said, they left so fast, "we didn't even see them leave. 'Hey, what happened to those guys?'"

Country Joe & the Fish were the ones unfortunate enough to be playing after Led Zeppelin at the Fillmore!

I don't think early Zeppelin & the Dead shared any covers that I know of - well, Nobody's Fault comes to mind, but I haven't heard Zep versions of Smokestack or Schoolgirl. Maybe there were some snippets in their long blues medleys.

The Bill Graham incident happened in 1977 at the Oakland Coliseum - there was a fight between Graham's guys & Zep's guys. Graham then had some of the Zep team arrested & sued. There are some details here under "the Oakland Incident":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Grant_(music_manager)
Knowing Graham's reputation, I find this kind of a funny story. But LZ definitely weren't nice guys on tour, if not straight out of Clockwork Orange.

Then again, reading Steve Parish's or Rock Scully's books, clearly the Dead weren't angels on tour either. (Of course, roadies get to see bands at their worst.)
Donna Godchaux actually had quite a reputation for destroying hotel rooms! The Dead were kicked out of their share of hotel chains (and airlines).

Zeppelin "peeled the paint off the walls" in different ways than the Dead - in the beginning they were all about the hard riffs & high energy & testosterone. Not very spacy, except in the depths of some 40-minute Dazed & Confused... But Jimmy Page droning on with his bow isn't much like Garcia doing his wah-wah warbles!
They did get pretty indulgent in live shows, with some looonnng instrumental sections & drum solos... Which the Dead were notorious for. Indeed, some young newcomers to the Dead in the '70s thought that, with a name like "the Grateful Dead" & all the skull imagery, they must be some Zep-type metal band!

I'm a fan of early Zeppelin, up til the fourth album - I think #3 & 4 are masterpieces - after that it gets too overblown for me. My favorite live Zep period is '70/71 - especially with the acoustic sets & more diverse guitar solos, they could be downright magical.

Occasionally they could even stray into more Dead-like territory, as in this Mountains of the Moon-type song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN5XevNGuus
Though they followed Cream & other British bands in rocking up American blues, American folk didn't have much influence on them - with a few exceptions, like taking Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Joan Baez. British folk had a large presence in their music, though - most specifically, Bert Jansch strongly influenced Jimmy Page's guitar-style (and Garcia was also impressed by his band Pentangle, when they played with the Dead in '69).
Robert Plant was also quite impressed by the Incredible String Band, and some elements of that snuck into Zeppelin's music. Incredibly, Plant even wanted to try ISB's "Very Cellular Song" - which includes 'I Bid You Goodnight'!
http://www.sahej.com/Incredible-String-and-Led-Zeppelin.htm
"The one thing we always wanted to do in Led Zeppelin was to finish off the show with the String Band's A Very Cellular Song - the bit that goes 'I was walking in Jerusalem just like John. goodnight, goodnight.' But Bonham said something very like Fuck Off!"

It might be interesting to compare the ways the Dead and Zeppelin covered the blues, since they were both big fans of the '50s Chess blues style. Zeppelin were notorious plagiarists of course, but besides that, they tended to turn their blues covers into screechy hard-rock & emphasize the sexual side of it. Pigpen, in contrast, was quite the blues traditionalist, trying to sing his covers just like the originals - though the band would sometimes turn the songs into long psychedelic explorations.

While LZ were not very psychedelic, the Dead in turn were no good at hard rock! Although occasionally they could do a funny little Zeppelin imitation, as at the end of the famous 11/6/77 Truckin'.
http://archive.org/details/gd77-11-06.sbd.nawrocki.283.sbeok.shnf (after 7min in the Truckin - the Dead challenge Zeppelin on their own turf!)

As one example of the contrast, there's an amusing comment in this blog-post about the Philo Stomp:
"Phil does this bass chord riffing that is somewhere between a Stones riff and something Peter Hook would do in Joy Division. I SO WISH the band all joined on this in a totally ballsy way. But, being the Dead, Phil is surrounded by some drugged impotents that aren't up to the challenge. If this was, say, LED ZEPPELIN, this would have become one of those awesome head banging riffs they'd go into in the middle of "Dazed and Confused" or "Whole Lotta Love". But instead, Jerry noodles, Bill can't seem to find the "one" and the promise of complete rock and roll satisfaction is dashed."
http://wheresthatsoundcomingfrom.blogspot.com/2012/01/greyfolded-say-it-fast-aloud.html

Anyway, Zeppelin are in general so different from the Dead, I wouldn't call their live shows "smoke & mirrors," unless you'd also call a band like the Who smoke & mirrors... (It's but a short step from Live at Leeds to a Zeppelin show from the same period.)

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 16, 2012 1:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

>Pigpen had a pistol, which he started firing at the ceiling.

Ooookaaaay.

>Led Zeppelin fled the studio -

They were smarter than I thought. I guess I see why the Hell's Angels stuck around.

>Indeed, some young newcomers to the Dead in the '70s thought that, with a name like "the Grateful Dead" & all the skull imagery, they must be some Zep-type metal band!

Hah. Still happens. I was talking to a 6th grade class yesterday (here on the other side of the world), and some boys had formed their own rock band wanted to know my favorite band. Um, it's a little weird to say "Grateful Dead" under those circumstances. They looked confused, but clearly approved; the lead guitarist told me they're trying to be like Guns n Roses, Metallica and someone called Slash, and then carefully wrote down "Grateful Dead" in his notebook, clearly thinking it must be some killer new American metal band to check out on their quest to head-banging fame.


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Poster: corry Date: May 16, 2012 4:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

When Led Zeppelin opened for Country Joe and The Fish on Jan 9-12, 1969 at Fillmore West, members of the Grateful Dead were present at least two nights. One night, either Jan 9 or 10, Mickey Hart joined the band (and Dave Getz) for a long jam on "Flying High" to close the evening.

On another night, either Jan 11 or Jan 12, Jerry Garcia, Mickey Hart, Jorma Kaukonen and Steve Miller joined Country Joe and The Fish (who at the time included Jack Casady) for a 38-minute version of "Donovan's Reef." The playing is commercially available on the Vanguard cd Live! At Fillmore West 1969 which I heartily recommend.

Thus we know that Garcia, Hart and Led Zep were all in the Fillmore West on the same night. What they heard or what they thought remains unknown.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 16, 2012 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Thanks, that slipped my mind when I was writing.

Of course, we don't know what the Dead thought of 90% of the other bands that played the Fillmore... Perhaps, due to all the blues-rock & British bands that were swarming over in those years, Zeppelin didn't sound like anything new.

On the other hand, we know Zeppelin had an immediate seismic impact on audiences. Somewhat amazingly for a new band whose first album was only released that week, most of their run at the Fillmore West was actually taped! (Whereas zero people were taping the Dead at the Fillmore West in early '69.)
Personally, I think they wiped the floor with Country Joe.

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Poster: corry Date: May 17, 2012 6:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

To add to the intrigue, the strange episode where Led Zeppelin were having their photos taken in SF at the same time as the Dead, and they took off when Pigpen supposedly started firing off his pistol, took place during this weekend.

Thus I have a feeling that Zeppelin may have been keeping there distance from the Dead, rather than the other way around. Taj Mahal (with Jesse Ed Davis on guitar) was the third act--it must have been some weekend.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 17, 2012 5:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

"Live! At Fillmore West 1969 which I heartily recommend"

totally forgot i had this in my collection (thanks for the reminder); the Donovan's Reef Jam is pretty interesting, although with so many guitars in the mix, i can't really pick out JG (although i imagine at times i can); of note, and according to the liner notes, Miller is on harp for the first 25 minutes, then switches to guitar for the rest of the jam

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Poster: snori Date: May 16, 2012 8:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Here's a connection - they both played at the Ally Pally, though Zep were there first http://www.ledzeppelin.com/show/december-22-1972

I was actally at this gig, the underside of the ceiling was converted with material hanging down to give the impression of being beneath an airship.

i enjoyed the show - it was loud, Page was using a bow on his twin-neck, and I was familiar with most of the material.

But like others here my interest in them faded away quite soon after seeing them.

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Poster: fireeagle Date: May 18, 2012 5:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

i was there too. on the rail, dead center. dont remember the ceiling thing, but yes it was loud and it def was 1 of the best rock shows i have seen, although by this time zep were not my fav band anymore

got a fine bootleg of this gig (solid A audience recording)
http://www.mediafire.com/?iv9f6wk4c7fboyx
http://www.mediafire.com/?yz6jabd4jmryte2

enjoy

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 16, 2012 11:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Overrated? Better shoot me now

OK, I know I'm opening myself up for some potential abuse, but I've never been convinced that Page is as good as many think he is, at least in terms of his lead work. Song structure, chord work, overall sound...amazing; but when he starts playing a lead, to me its like the song runs into a brick wall and all the work he put into building the song up to that point is lost. Over indulgent, self-aggrandizing and technically "meh". I guess I should thank him for inspiring one of may favorite bits in Spinal Tap when Nigel plays his guitar with a violin. Same thing I feel when Robbie Roberts trys to trade licks with Clapton in The Last Waltz. Borders on painful. Before I was introduced to Jerry, I thought of Page as one of the better players, but then I discovered what a lead should be and my Zepplin listening shrank substantially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4UJkl6eaGQ

All of this is IMHO only. If you feel differently, more power to you; just don't expect me to get all excited the next time they announce a bunch of lost Zeppelin tapes have been found.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2012-05-16 18:51:13

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Poster: clashcity Date: May 16, 2012 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Overrated? Better shoot me now

"Same thing I feel when Robbie Roberts trys to trade licks with Clapton in The Last Waltz. Borders on painful."

Yikes... I'm not trying to say Robbie Robertson is some guitar virtuoso but he could certainly play well enough to keep up with Clapton...

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Poster: dark.starz Date: May 16, 2012 7:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Overrated? Better shoot me now

"Same thing I feel when Robbie Roberts tries to trade licks with Clapton in The Last Waltz. Borders on painful."

Robbie Robertson blew Eric Clapton off the stage that evening with his lead guitar work on "Further On Up The Road", but that was still the dark years for EC, so i’ll choose to tread lightly. I enjoyed the moment when Eric dropped his guitar strap to pass the lead back over to Robbie. While we are on the subject of Eric Clapton has anyone read "Clapton, The Autobiography?"

Comparing Led Zepplin to The Grateful Dead is synonymous with comparing Beethoven to Stravinsky, both equally great in their own rights, though the Dead outlasted the Zep.

Perhaps it's safe to say that Led Zepplin was the closest act that Britain had when compared to the Dead, certainly in terms of appeal to the American audiences of the 70s along with the Who and of course, "The Rolling Stones".

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: May 17, 2012 7:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Overrated? Better shoot me now

"Perhaps it's safe to say that Led Zepplin was the closest act that Britain had when compared to the Dead"

You're an idiot.

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: May 16, 2012 3:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Overrated? Better shoot me now

SDH,I gotta agree w/ you I always thought he was really overated.To me his style is very hurkey jerkey for lack of a better word.I know that he was a sought after session player but for me there are so many other guitarists that are much more fluent for that time period,ex.Dave Mason,Albert Lee,Eric of course, Jeff Beck Roy Buchannon,Mike Blommfield,David Gilmore.Where I have a problem w/is your evalution of Robbie Robertson judging him on one song in the so-called last performance of the Band that he was w/ for at least the 16 years he talked about really isn't a fair comparison.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 16, 2012 7:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Criminally under rated? Better shoot out the lights...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94X6YBArri4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0sSxk7yxn8&;feature=related

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2012-05-17 02:40:34

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 17, 2012 4:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Criminally under rated? Better shoot out the lights...

I remember how surprised I was when I heard that Reno Nevada. "Richard Thompson played like THAT in the early Fairport days? And they never bothered recording it??"

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 17, 2012 5:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Overrated? Better shoot me now

I see I've stirred up quite the hornets nest with my comment on Mr. Robertson. I guess I should have been clearer that I was using his performance from Last Waltz ONLY. And even then, I certainly respect the opinions of others who see it differently. This is purely my reaction.
That's one of my favorite thing about this place: disagreement is more the norm then mindless conformation. We are not The Borg dammit. Although I'm pretty sure we aren't much more attractive.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: May 17, 2012 7:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Overrated? Better shoot me now

"....Although I'm pretty sure we aren't much more attractive...."

Jeri Ryan pretty much seals that deal.

http://www.thingsnerdslike.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/JeriRyan.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2Z38lHf-f78/TyYqfpZg9NI/AAAAAAAAAOA/cXjtpwP8zLo/s1600/Jeri-Ryan-Seven-of-Nine-Face-Close-Up.jpg

She de-borgifies nicely don't you think?

http://www.celebritywallpapers.org/wallpapers/jeriryan/jeri_ryan_4.jpg

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 17, 2012 7:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Overrated? Better shoot me now

Hard to be intimidated by any alien race supposedly bent on universal assimilation when presented with such a fine rack (my apologies to any female readers).

"My eyes are up here, Captain"

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: May 17, 2012 8:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Overrated? Better shoot me now

"Mine are down "there", 7 of 9. Carry on."

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: May 16, 2012 7:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: I agree with Ronnie Wood ...

Led Zeppelin / The New Yardbirds: "A bunch of farmers".

http://www.guitarworld.com/ron-wood-rolling-stones-i-turned-down-chance-join-led-zeppelin

Give me the Dead any day of the week.

This post was modified by Jacky Hughes on 2012-05-16 14:29:01

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Poster: user unknown Date: May 16, 2012 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I agree with Pete Townsend...

"The Who were OK but without me they would have all ended up working in the flower market, or worse - in Led Zeppelin."

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: May 16, 2012 7:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I have always though of Led Zeppelin as the "anit-Dead" . I could go on and on , I The main difference is "soulfulness" . Garcia could move you to tears, but while the mighty Zep, could come up with some impressive songs and textures , It seem so surface . I am unmoved by Page's guitar playing, as compared to the other giants of the era . He writing and arranging skills where his talent shines , in my opinion .
The band Page modeled his on was the WHO . A big loud drummer (Moon), a musically proficient professional on bass (Entwistle ), a blond sexy lead singer (Daltrey) and a guitar player leader ( Townshend , though Page was more a traditional lead player than Pete ). It was all very calculated, and paid off extremely well .
On a human level, though the Dead, and especially their road crew, could be as rowdy and any, they never had that "mean" thuggish level of behavior that some of LZ had . Read the Bill Graham autobio on this , allowing for some Uncle Bobo bull, it still is not a flattering portrait of Zeppelin .
I must say , in contrast to creepiness of Page, and the sick brutality of Bonham, I have always heard that Plant is a good "bloke', but any who have met him .

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Poster: fenario80 Date: May 16, 2012 10:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I think I'm in this camp with you. I always found Zeppelin cold. Totally recognize their musical skill, but for me listening to them is like watching paint dry.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 16, 2012 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

That changed for me when I heard "How The West Was Won" (1972 live stuff) and a boot I have from, I think, '75, at MSG. Far from cold.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: May 16, 2012 11:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Being the live music whore that I am, I absolutely will check those out. Appreciate the rec.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: May 16, 2012 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Deep Purple resonated far more with me than Zep.

Greatly enjoyed the Robert Plant-Alison Krauss "Raising Sand" collab...

The juxtaposition of Zep's evil dark undertones and Krauss' sweet, soothing voice are pretty freakin' cool.

"Polly Come Home" and "Through the Morning, Through the Night" and "Trampled Rose" are by themselves worth the price of the album.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: May 16, 2012 7:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Yeah. This is beautiful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acX_2zkA0KA&;feature=related

and this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPlvU1hKb0E&;feature=related

or try this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgzs6pT26KI&;feature=related


This post was modified by ringolevio on 2012-05-17 02:12:15

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Poster: Space Jogger Date: May 17, 2012 7:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

As far as raw power goes, Led Zeppelin blows post-hiatus Grateful Dead off the stage. I don't know, I wasn't there, but Led Zeppelin seemed to keep their passion and aggressiveness throughout their career, where the Dead kind of got too soft.

I still love all years of Grateful Dead recordings, but in my opinion the hiatus was the demarcation point of two different bands. Even though pre-hiatus Dead wasn't Hard Rock they were still inspired enough to make a case for their sound being more powerful than Hard Rock through sheer substance, passion, and intelligence. 'The Eleven>Death Don't Have No Mercy' can hang with any Zeppelin Hard Rock jam, for example.

Like other folks have mentioned, Led Zeppelin has very nice acoustic capabilities, which shows some similarities to the Dead.

I appreciate Garcia's articulation style of playing more than Page's riff/power playing, but Page still had a great command of melody, which makes him deserved of all accolades in my opinion. Page could play amped up rock guitar, but still be using his guitar to speak a communicative language, kind of like Garcia.

The bottom line is Led Zeppelin are balls-to-the-wall straight effin' rock stars and the Grateful Dead could also be labeled as such, but by different means. Great post!

Led Zeppelin - Achilles Last Stand (Live Knebworth 1979)



This post was modified by Space Jogger on 2012-05-17 14:59:58

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Poster: belmon28 Date: May 15, 2012 9:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin


Led Zeppelin I always felt tried to cultivate a dark hedonistic kind of music. The music although creative, is kind of cold.

... Led Zeppelin ripped off blue's artist such as Willie Dixon by blatantly covering their songs without paying royalties.

... Jimmy Page lived in Alistair Crowley's house, A dark mystic of the early 20th century. This by itself mean nothing. However you add all Satan stuff it kind of creeps one out.

... John Bonham and his thuggish friends beat Bill Grahams assistant to within an inch or two of his life at the Oakland Coliseum in 193 or 1975 over money

They may have been A great band and all. They could never touch the Dead in the grand scheme of things. People like Jerry only happen about once every hundred years. One of my favorite quotes from Jerry is in Guitar Player magazine from 1978. The dude from Guitar Player ask Jerry what he thinks of Punk Rock And New Wave, " I love it all man".

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Poster: Skobud Date: May 16, 2012 7:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

For me Dennis - It was like Zepplin was starter classic rock. I loved them from the time I heard them(I was 12) until about the age of 18. I burned myself out by that time after listening to the entire catalog which I had purchased.

I still cant listen to them to this day because I overplayed that shit soo much during my high school years. Really the only album I can still tolerate is Presence. AND - truly when I first heard the GD it changed the way I listened to music.

When it comes to Led Zepplin its kinda like Rush imo. Too much too soon. I worshipped theset wo bands in my younger years, which led to total burnout.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 16, 2012 7:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

A number of similar views thus far; interesting. Put me in the "early is better per usual camp".

The first album is the only one I ever really cared for, and it was in part because of its impact in the Bay Area when released (69 if I recall?). They were viewed as extremely important, high energy brit blues invaders, which everyone was talking about.

Agree entirely with the posts thus far about the uni-dimensional aspect of the band...and the comparison with CREAM is unavoidable. For me, as others have alluded to, it's the cheesey lyrics that set them apart...while some would say lyrics of CREAM are only a modest improvement, and certainly don't approach those of Hunter/DEAD, I just always found the writing for LZ almost embarrassing...

Nonetheless, that first album was a killer; by the mid 70s, though, they were so pop as to be # 1 on the "hate list" (again, if you liked the DEAD, anyone that achieved such recognition and fame had to have some serious flaw, etc., etc.).

LiA: yes, I have a handful of Babe I'm Gonna Leave Ya recordings, and LZ's could be quite like the one by QMS...I often used it to show how LZ could be quite different from the pop impression everyone had.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: May 17, 2012 7:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

If you read Hammer of the Gods, you'll really find out what scumbags those guys were (sans JPJ). I don't have much respect for Bonham or Page, other than their musical abilities. Plant wasn't as bad as those two, but he did of course suffer from LSS (Lead Singer Syndrome). He truly did believe he was a golden god. Thankfully, he's humbled a bit in his old age.

I'm fascinated by the occurrence of people obsessing over Zep in their adolescent years and then burning out on them once they grow up a bit. I'm in the same boat, as I listened to Zep almost exclusively for 2 years in middle school. Still listened to them in high school, but eventually could not stand to hear another Page riff or Plant wail. Then I got into the GD and other assorted wonders, and avoided them completely for several years. I can once again appreciate them now that I took that break from listening, however I still very rarely choose to listen to Zep. There's just too much other music I find more appealing.

In regards to the comments about them being one-dimensional, I really don't agree with that. If you compare any band to the GD, they will seem one-dimensional. Their first 3 albums are rather divergent. Physical Graffiti showed some more range as well.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 17, 2012 8:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

What I'd mean by one-dimensional isn't "range" in the sense of some of their tunes being folksy and acoustic, some being blues, and some being wild and heavy; it's more that the feeling or mood that they convey -- their underlying vision or artistic tone -- doesn't seem to have a lot of depth or emotional/poetic range.

I think that's a big reason it doesn't hold interest for a lot of people past a certain age or musical exposure; there's just not as much there. It's sound over substance. It's a heck of a sound, and IMO they're towering giants compared to a lot that also appeals to adolescents -- Aerosmith, Van Halen, etc -- but still, the dimension they explore was pretty much captured by Spinal Tap.

Btw, just had to mention that Zeppelin has one of my best misheard lyrics ... another elementary school favorite ...

You've got oo-lay, baby you've got oo-lay,
I'm gonna send you back to school-ay
Way down inside, honey you need [cool guitar sounds]
Gotta whole lotta love, gotta whole lotta love ...
[more cool guitar sounds]

Oo-lay. I figured it was kind of like Ooblek in Dr. Seuss.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 17, 2012 4:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I can't really agree about Zep being wholly one-dimensional (especially compared to the hard-rock bands that followed them), I thought they captured a wide range of moods & tones - but that aside, I'm not sure there's much point in calling a band 'one-dimensional.'
Many of the greatest bands & players are totally one-dimensional, especially in the blues field, and certainly in hard rock. Probably in all types of music. It doesn't subtract from their importance, even if it means you wouldn't want to put them on constant repeat like the Dead.

I'm also amused by how many people burned out on Zep after an early infatuation. Maybe just because it hasn't happened to me! I still find their early stuff pretty thrilling. Then again, I'm really 13 at heart...

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: May 17, 2012 11:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

“It's sound over substance.”

I think that sums it up perfectly. They're the kind of band that would always put on a jaw-dropping performance live, but their material doesn't resonate enough to be heard over and over again outside of a live setting IMO. All the studio performances of Zep I find pretty boring at this point, but I can pop in that huge Led Zep DVD or listen to How The West Was Won and still have fun rockin' along to that.

This post was modified by rdenirojb87 on 2012-05-17 18:27:52

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Poster: craven714 Date: May 18, 2012 11:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

All the studio performances ----------------------------

What? all 40 hours or so? Over a decade?
No VS at all! (sry cliff)

I LOVE< LOVE< LOVE LLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEE
Led Zep. I whole heartedly agree with you there jb87.
As far as music, different approaches,yeah... cool and all

BUT GIVE ME THE GREATFUL FUCKIN DEAD EVERY SECOND FOR THE
REST OF MY LIFE.

thank you...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 17, 2012 10:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I don't think Hammer of the Gods should be the be all and end all of truth that these guys were all scumbags as you say. Even so the only one that comes off as a complete asshole besides Richard Cole and Peter Grant ( who were not in the band ) was John Bonham. And even then his real assholness seemed to be due to country boy hits the big city and is a bad alcoholic who turns into Mr Hyde when he drinks. Not excusing it. Other than that what makes them such scum? Jimmy Page getting it on with a teenager is pretty gross but not entirely out of the norm back then with groupies. Again doesnt justify it but... Them cheating on their wives with tons of groupies? gain, this was the 70's. Overall I think the reputation comes largely from the road crew the manager and Bonham

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: May 17, 2012 11:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I was going to mention that Hammer of Gods likely isn't the most credible source. I personally found their behavior to be rather scummy, and not solely based on that book. One thing that irks me is Jimmy's attitude. I don't know if you saw link to a Page interview that was posted here once (I'm trying to find it), but I just hate his arrogance. And the other things you mentioned are not the most admirable characteristics, however that behavior was almost expected at the time in their industry. And much of their behavior was precipitated by those thugs Grant and Cole. They both knew how to manipulate the young minds of Page, Plant, and Bonham. JPJ was wise beyond his years.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 17, 2012 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I agree that JPJ was and is a true professional. As for Page - I've heard interviews were he definitely either was lying or because of too many drugs or whatever reason actually believed in certain myths himself. As far as him being arrogant I can tell you that I met him on his Outrider solo tour in 89. I being only 19 at the time completely worshipped the man and I probably came off as a total Wayne's World moment -" I'm not worthy I'm not worthy" and the guy was VERY apporachable and polite. Nothing snobbish about him at all. Granted he was way past his career peak but he took the time to shake the hand and talk with an 18 year old out of high school dumb MALE bordeline groupie and totally nice about it.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 17, 2012 12:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

JPJ did a hell of a job on the stuff he did with Diamanda Galas (sp?) and REM. The string arrangements for REM were/are "sublime".

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Poster: BlackThroatedWindbag Date: Nov 25, 2012 9:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I have to second this. JPJ's string arrangements on "Automatic for the People" are amazing! It's a major reason why that album is one of R.E.M.'s best.

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Poster: vapors Date: May 15, 2012 6:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

I will have to check out that book. I think he must have meant that they played some of the same covers that the Dead were known for; two that come to mind right off are Smokestack Lightning and Good Morning Little Schoolgirl.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: May 15, 2012 6:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead vs. Led Zeppelin

Nobody's Fault But Mine I believe this is another shared cover